This is a conversation between Ralph Allison and Charity, a Professor CIE.
Ralph: We are now at 12-15-95 with Charity talking about the TV program "Miracles and the Extraordinary." All right now, these are questions that came to mind. I just want them on record. They talked in this program with one priest, Marianne Williamson, another preacher and a doctor and they all seemed to agree that there was a power of prayer to help heal people. Now you are laughing already, which indicates that you don't agree with them. Is that correct?
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: Well, we will drop that subject. Then we go on to why should so many people believe in a power of prayer if something hasn't been demonstrated by experience?
Charity: What the avenue is that you have humans that are in group that is praying for another human being who is ill but the avenue is designed for that human being, their charge to exist or to become well will happen no matter what. Because ??? We have a question for you. What is prayer?
Ralph: Well, I think that is usually defined as a spoken or non spoken thought directed towards a higher power, usually God, asking for some particular intervention in human life.
Charity: First of all, humans don't need to do that. The Essences already know what needs to happen.
Ralph: Well, our religions have taught us we need to do that.
Charity: So by prayer, it is a request?
Ralph: That is one type of prayer, yes. A prayer may also be a praise and a thank you.
Charity: Why do they call it a prayer instead of a request? What is the difference?
Ralph: A prayer is always devoted to a god. I say "a god" because you can have cultures with many gods.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: It is not to another person that a request would ordinarily be. It is a request in a prayerful way to somebody who doesn't physically exist.
Charity: A reverent request?
Ralph: Yes, a reverent request, to a non physical being.
Charity: We understand. So it is a request for an interaction of a higher level of existence, as quote our realm.
Ralph: Yes.
Charity: Correct?
Ralph: Yes, and the other questions they ask there is "can God refuse to answer a prayer and give a NO answer instead of a YES answer?"
Charity: Well, first of all we have again that the Essences know what needs to happen. Just like with your aspect. Knowing what is going to happen with your life plan. We had stated to you that you would cease
Ralph: I would cease? You certainly did that get that message over, yes, I remember that.
Charity: What happened Michael went in and talked to The Creator. It was deemed that it was not an appropriate time and things would continue on the way it was supposed to continue on. That was an instant where we have now a different time. Correct?
Ralph: So we could say – I remember what happened there in that I didn't make a prayer to anybody about that.
Charity: No, you asked Michael.
Ralph: It was my attitude was not one of emotions or – it was more a comment that it would seem to be a waste of my efforts and abilities to shorten it, to cease at that point. I think I could be of more use after that, too. I had something more to offer. But I wasn't asking to be relieved of that problem. I didn't even think I could ask to be relieved of that problem. It wasn't anything I felt I had any charge over. If it was going to be, it was going to be.
Charity: But Michael came up to ourselves and we had a discussion on the matter.
Ralph: So therefore that would
Charity: Just as you remember.
Ralph: Right, so that would be equivalent to the purpose people might have so who could say that when there is something that does change what the pattern has been made out to be, that the Essence has done the appeal, shall we say?
Charity: Correct, they can also be denied.
Ralph: With all the factors.
Charity: Just as Becky has been denied.
Ralph: I heard that on the phone once, about a husband, yes.
Charity: Yes.
Ralph: All right so, but we have, actually we have a problem, in our studies of these things, we do all kinds of studies of associations between this event and that event. There are more of these and more of these in the same group at the same time, but everybody jumps to a conclusion that one is causing the other.
Charity: Which it is not.
Ralph: Now it may be causing it in some indirect way through six other connections, but we don't know that. Or they both can be caused by the same phase of the moon or something external to both of them. But that is a human frailty in logic. Now they made also a great deal of to-do about the faith of the sick person helping them get healed. It was a common comment.
Charity: We don't understand that.
Ralph: Exactly, I'm sure you don't understand it because I don't understand it. For example, Oral Roberts was on this program.
Charity: Oh, we know.
Ralph: And he got started when he had TB when he was a teenager. And he had been a trouble maker and a ne'er-do-well apparently before that. He was not going according to what his family wanted him to do.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: And everybody else got TB and died. He got TB and I think it made a great impact on him, that everybody had died just before he did. So I think he was afraid of dying.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: But he felt that he had faith in God at that moment. And because he had faith in God, who then could heal him, is why he got well. They make a point of this over and over again that – and the Christian Scientists do this all the time – if you have enough faith in God, God will heal you. When you don't get healed, it's your fault for not having enough faith. That's the way they look at it.
Charity: What we are stating on that aspect is first of all, if it is in your life plan to get well, you will get well. Period. Your Essence will take care of it.
Ralph: You are very clear about that. And if you have faith in God while this is happening,
Charity: You have faith in it?
Ralph: I'm not sure what that means, you see? to them
Charity: We think they were stating is if you have enough belief in something in the Creator to bring about a physical well being, that it will bring about a physical well being. If you have enough belief. But if you don't believe strongly enough, therefore you as a human have failed. Therefore you have a concept that you as a human must have enough faith – if you do not have enough belief system, then you are not going to get well. If you do not get well, you did not have a strong enough belief system. Why do you humans choose to do that?
Ralph: Im taking from that that that is not a correct interpretation as to why people get well.
Charity: No.
Ralph: You have said that already, I'm just pointing it out. Having enough faith in God is not going to create the cure.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: If your plan is to get sick and die.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: OK. All right. They also had some comments there about people who are spiritual getting sick less often than people who are not spiritual.
Charity: That is a falsehood.
Ralph: Well, what is the point in being spiritual if its not going to keep you alive longer?
Charity: Are you spiritual?
Ralph: I don't know. I think so. I'm not sick. See, that proves it.
Charity: Is Michael Cannon spiritual?
Ralph: I think so. Well this again, puts the burden on the individual
Charity: Again, that's what the humans do to each human. Its not the humans design to try – what the humans are trying to do is try to show that other humans are below what they are in a belief system. They are showing a fallacy in what other humans believe. If they don't get well, or believe strong enough that they are going to get well, then they don't meet the high standards of what the other humans have done. So they are in an innate guilt system that they do to other humans.
Ralph: We have a great deal of that in the whole Christian religion. Believe in Me and you will be born again, or some great things will happen. I still haven't figured out what "believe in me" means. I don't know how do to it since I don't know what that phrase requires me to do.
Charity: It does not require any aspect. I means to believe in Michael. Listen to Michael.
Ralph: Well, that I can understand. But the Christian thing "believe in Christ" has no inherent meaning to me.
Charity: That is because it has no inherent meaning. It is all part of the Great Deception.
Ralph: But it seems that all these other people seem to understand its meaning right away. "I believe in Christ and therefore I am saved," and they appear to know what they are talking about. But I don't understand what they are talking about. So I think I am stupid when I don't understand because they seem so well comprehending. That is why I am always confused by these people.
Charity: You are not ignorant.
Ralph: I don't think so but this is a common phrase so many thousands, millions have used as if they know what it means.
Charity: It is another phrase out of the book.
Ralph: I know that.
Charity: It was written by humans so therefore
Ralph: I get a problem saying, "How come those millions of people seem to know what they are saying so it leads up to saying and doing something they didn't do before they believed in Christ.
Charity: You have a question.
Ralph: What are these black angels that this man had tap on his chest to make him sicker?
Charity: There is no avenue on that.
Ralph: Is his belief creating it? That was what the doctor said, that he had a belief in angels and he saw this black angel above him, came down and tapped him on the heart where he was sick already and put him into fibrillation.
Charity: He wanted, he just, you can call them what you want to.
Ralph: Thoughtforms
Charity: Yes.
Ralph: His own fear.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: All right, I understand that. He just creates it in black angel form. All right. I can understand that. Now that I understand. Belief I don't understand but thoughtforms I understand perfectly.
Charity: We don't have any colors.
Ralph: You don't have any colors, oh dear. No purple angels, green angels, red angels, huh.
Charity: No, no white either. No color.
Ralph: Now you mentioned to me once before that you had something to do with these statues of the Virgin Mary and such, weeping so people became somehow more religiously oriented.
Charity: More spiritually awakened, yes.
Ralph: More spiritually awakened. Now there were people who called in on this show who had been to these places where there were weeping statues and their lives had been changed by being there. I don't understand how this presence of the Virgin Mary which they felt inhabited this place makes such an important effect on peoples lives. How do people improve under such conditions?
Charity: Exactly how did they improve?
Ralph: They didn't say. They just gave a global statement.
Charity: What we are stating is that in the avenue that they had more spiritual awakening to bring them back on to the correct path they needed to be. On the avenue with all these humans that have gone to the miracles
Ralph: Places where miracles were performed, yes.
Charity: Whatever, then why not all of them have been changed or all of them believe?
Ralph: One magician brought that up about the Temple of Lourdes in France where all the sick people go to get cured of their physical illnesses. And he had some numbers of people in the millions who had gone through there and they had some bona fide 20-50 cures of illnesses, a very small percentage, which is probably no different than in the population at large who didn't go there.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: But they went to Lourdes.
Charity: Different avenues for different humans that they need to.
Ralph: There is the other thing that I think, that if they go out to one of these places where there is the belief in the Virgin Mary in the statue or something like that, that is the next question. If the spokespersons are found to be frauds, but the people still have some improvement that is beneficial to them.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: I would suspect that the improvement is that they change from a pure materialistic attitude that there is nothing here but this physical thing we have to at least an awareness that you are here. And the Essence is there or whatever perception they get. They get beyond the physical and that will get them in touch with their Essence more likely and therefore they would be doing better after that.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: Marianne said that angels are the Thoughts of God. What would you like to say to that?
Charity: We are not going to discuss that one.
Ralph: Does God think? That gets to be a little – we are talking about Thoughtspace where everything is thought. So therefore so how can somebody think when they are already thought?
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: You would have to have a human to think.
Charity: That is when we quote chuckled.
Ralph: You chuckled. OK. It's contradictory, then. God doesn't think, God is consciousness already.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: Actually intelligent energy is the same as consciousness.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: At least I've got my own dictionary straight. All right. How does healing work in the name of Jesus Christ?
Charity: It doesn't.
Ralph: You mean the preacher hasn't been healing all these people all these years?
Charity: No.
Ralph: You realize how hurt he would be to know that? How useless he would feel?
Charity: Yes we know.
Ralph: So you haven't told him.
Charity: No.
Ralph: His Essence is keeping him fooled.
Charity: Of course, what are preachers' Essences?
Ralph: Babies.
Charity: OK.
Ralph: Here we have one. Prayer could get somebody well, it said, but that would be getting somebody changing the life plan. So how could this prayer group change somebody's life plan?
Charity: Again you are taking the aspect that the prayer, asking, is going to change it at all. Asking does not change anything. It is the Essence.
Ralph: Lets go onto the next one, then. There was one that said, "When we die we go to a place called Heaven to speak to God." Now that sounds very pleasant.
Charity: We are sorry.
Ralph: to see the Teachers.