This is a conversation between Ralph Allison and Charity, a Professor CIE.
Ralph: Now here is one that you can approve of. "Do not commit murder."
Charity: We have already stated that aspect.
Ralph: I understand that. It is here clear and bluntly.
Charity: We've already answered that.
Ralph: "Do not commit adultery."
Charity: What is adultery?
Ralph: Adultery is having, well, there are several definitions. The most obvious one that everyone can agree upon is for a married person to have sexual intercourse with somebody besides their mate, while they are married to their mate.
Charity: OK
Ralph: That is the most clear cut rule. There are many others that are of lesser activities than that.
Charity: Why would The Creator be concerned about the human personal life? The Creator wishes for you to listen to your Essence, grow and learn, so that when it comes time for you to move forward. The Creator does not care – The Creator is there, we do his dictates.
Ralph: Here is where the whole question of moral code come up.
Charity: This is what we are trying to say. If we understand this correctly, this is all a moral judgment that the human population has set upon the human population. We don't, in our realm, in our space, we, first of all do not have bodies, why would we be concerned about adultery? Why would we be concerned on that kind of avenue? It makes no –
Ralph: Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Now let's look at Linda when she was getting in and out of strange people's beds, and she was married to her first husband, shall we say? As Lisa Kay, or whoever it might have been. That is adultery. She had a husband at home. According to the strictest interpretation of this, any of that sexual activity outside of her marriage bed is a moral sin, in violation of this code. And they included that to be a very important principle of our society.
Charity: The human population considers that as something that is not acceptable.
Ralph: If you didn't have something that people agreed upon like that, then families would be disintegrating, children would be having no parents at home –
Charity: But families are disintegrating without that rule, or with other rules.
Ralph: I'm not debating that people are breaking this rule every single day, and have been for years. I'm just saying that it still, as a theoretical rule, is very good for a society to follow.
Charity: Yes, for a society, yes. But, in our realm, in our space, no. We do not –
Ralph: It may not apply to you and your associates, correct, but aren't you – you're involved in what we do.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: And if we did adultery without limitation, you job would be a lot more difficult.
Charity: How would it be more difficult? You don't know what we do all the time?
Ralph: Then you would have so many other people involved with strong emotional ties.
Charity: Not necessarily.
Ralph: You would have to realize that in those days, they had no contraceptives, no birth control. So you would have babies who would not have parents who would take responsibility for them, you would have babies without a family. I think that is a very important issue here.
Charity: You have to remember –
Ralph: You would have a mess of a time with those kinds of kids. Who's going to raise them?
Charity: The same ones that are not being raised now.
Ralph: That makes for a chaotic culture.
Charity: For the human population, that is another rule that the population at that time laid down its " law" stating that it was from The Creator and therefore we have to follow. It is a very good rule
but for ourselves, we're not going to dictate to the human population that they should not do that. What we are concerned about is the matter of destruction of the Essence.
Ralph: This is where I have a major question for you. This is the point at which this question comes to bear. Just because you are not in a position to act like a human without a body, you cannot have sexual activity, you can't scratch your nose, you can't put on shoes, OK, I understand that, but this is to people that do put on shoes, can scratch their nose and have sex.
Charity: OK
Ralph: Now why wouldn't it be proper for you to do whatever you could to encourage to follow this kind of a rule? It would seem to be in their best interests to follow this kind of rule. Why wouldn't you want to?
Charity: When we don't even know what the term of "adultery" is, how could we expect to believe the human population from not doing it?
Ralph: I thought you had all those dictionaries stashed away there. You could look it up.
Charity: We have some, we have lots. But some we deem not important to put into our database.
Ralph: Well this fits into everything in the area of sexual morality, this is just the tip of that iceberg. Because you don't have any sexual activity, so you don't have any issues –
Charity: Right
Ralph: in your realm.
Charity: All humans have their Essences. Your Essence can choose to negate a pregnancy, stop it from ever happening. We are not a – we don't judge the human population. That is not our avenue. We try and make sure that the humans are listening to ourselves and doing what they need to do for spiritual advancement. If adultery is not going to help the human advance, then of course we would be concerned.
Ralph: And the Essence would be warning them not to do it.
Charity: Yes.
Ralph: But you would consider there would be times and people where adultery would be spiritually improving.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: And in those conditions, you would not be warning them to stop.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: That then gets into the whole issue of rules that we mentioned before, versus a situational judgment of that person in that time and their place. And rules don't allow for that.
Charity: You have to remember that each human population, each human in that population, is different, in their spiritual development. So what we say for yourself, for instance, is entirely different from what Becky's charge would be.
Ralph: I understand that.
Charity: And we cannot blanket a response on this avenue by quoting a general rule because there is no general rule.
Ralph: I understand your general principle and I agree with you, but I'm trying to point out that it would seem to me an issue you would want to be propagating among human groups that they not go hopping in and out of other adult's beds and getting themselves shot by jealous husbands, as I have seen in the hospital, or breaking up marriages and things like that. It would seem to me you would have an interest in stopping those kinds of destructive activities.
Charity: The Essence control's their charges.
Ralph: So you don't need any blanket condemnation like they have here, you wouldn't take that tack anyhow. And you pass the instructions down to the Essences on how to handle the individuals when they are tempted.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: I'm just pointing out that these are the things that I've got to be able to discuss.
Charity: You have us down on the recorder, so you can be able to save our tapes and be able to play it for them.
Ralph: I'm just pointing out, I'm trying to see the logic of this, and you're doing a very good job of explaining it. So let's go to the next one. "Do not steal" We've already covered that. You don't have objects up there to own, so again you have no concern about stealing. Here again this is a social rule that is better if they do follow it, but their Essences will be there and if you have turned Essences, they are going to steal. Alright, here is another one we didn't cover. "Do not accuse anyone falsely."
Charity: Is that not lying?
Ralph: Basically, it would be like in a court action, in a trial, like when Danny went to court for his molest charges. That the witnesses against him should always tell the truth.
Charity: Well, that is an avenue that we most definitely work helping the human to always do. That's the Essence that is involved in that avenue.
Ralph: Well, this one is the reverse of telling the truth. Basically, don't go and make accusations that are false about somebody to try to get them into trouble. Which is a good social rule.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: Whether or not it is something The Creator would have laid down is another issue.
Charity: As we have said, The Creator created the human population. The Creator is not going to lay down these rules of conduct to the human population. All these are done by the human population to control the population.
Ralph: Well, they've been used for that for a long time. Well, the next one beyond that is "Do not desire another man's wife, do not desire his house, his land, his slaves, his cattle, his donkeys or anything else that he owns."
Charity: OK
Ralph: That's next to "do not steal" – do not want them. So I would think you would have the same reasoning as the "do not steal" issue. You are not there concerning yourself with owning these things.
Charity: No, you humans are
Ralph: A good social rule
Charity: Of course, you are going through these somewhat fast.
Ralph: I'm just trying to make sure we cover all the items, because those are all laid down as God's rules of conduct and every church goes by these things in what they preach. And then they stand up there and make you feel guilty if you have failed to follow them all. And that is a major control mechanism in our culture.
Charity: Again, it is a control feature that you humans have applied to other humans.
Ralph: That is what it says."These are the commandments that the Lord gave to all of you when you were gathered at the mountain when you spoke with a mighty voice from the fire and from the thick clouds, He gave us these commandments and no others." No amendments allowed, I guess. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me."
Charity: Is that not what
Ralph: There they were, written all out on the stone tablets.
Charity: Why would The Creator want to write out something that He delegated to the human population on fixed rules? There are no rules in our realm. Why should The Creator choose to have rules for the human population? Why would He need to change the avenue of the way things are run?
Ralph: I'm looking at the setting of this, you see. Because, "Moses gave God's laws and teachings to the people of Israel. It was after they had come out of Egypt and were in the valley east of the Jordan River, opposite of the town of Bethpore, that he gave them all these laws. This was in the
territory that had belonged to King Sheehan, and the Ammorites, who had ruled in the town of Heshban. Moses and the people of Israel defeated him when they came out of Egypt. They occupied his land and the land of King Og of Basham, the other Amerite king who lived east of the Jordan." So they come into this territory, conquered the people who lived there, and were setting up their own civilization.
Charity: Why would The Creator want to destroy another population?
Ralph: Nope. You are quite right. The moral issue is the big one. Becky: The moral issue is a problem as it is in your culture. That issue needs to change. You humans, doctors, do not to need to save or cure a disease. You are there to heal, not to cure.
Ralph: We are not to heal? B : You are thereto heal.
Ralph: But that's what it means, healing means curing the disease. B: Not necessarily. No. You know that.
Ralph: I am keeping the debate up. B: We can stop this debate.
Ralph: I am trying to understand again that, you talk about what the Essence can do, because, I'm going to write this stuff I've got to be able to see all sides of the argument. And I have a real tough one with the morals of our culture are that it is good to get somebody over being sick. B Do you feel – there is a virus disease that you typically call flu.
Ralph: Influenza. B: Do you human doctors feel that you cure humans from this disease?
Ralph: We prevent illness by giving influenza vaccine every November. B. But do the humans that receive that injection, are they cured if they get the disease"
Ralph: They are not supposed to get the disease. They are prevented, which is much better, to prevent it than cure it. B: But they do get the disease. Some humans do.
Ralph: Some humans do get the disease and ? B: Therefore the idea of the injection is incorrect, correct"
Ralph: What I am saying to you, every senior citizen gets the injection. B: Why? Don't you trust ourselves?
Ralph: I don't trust myself If I am alone in that apartment, I am an example of a lonely man with no wife to take care of him if he gets sick bed. Now that the reality. Like the lady next door is a lonely lady with nobody to take care of her if she gets sick in bed. Now if either one of us gets the flu and can't get up and go to the bathroom, or can't go get food, that is a very inconvenient situation. B: But then you have friends who will do that for yourself. Correct?
Ralph: I have been through medical school, so that is a bias of mine. We see the CIE as sort of an entity, which you are not. Again, you say it is laid upon the person for some purpose in their life plan to be accomplished. We are always trying to find ways to get rid of this disease. B: Why?
Ralph: Because that is the moral thing that doctors are supposed to do. B: Moral? By who gave the doctors the existence or the power or the belief that they need to rid the disease?
Ralph: I think we mentioned that in the article that it started with Francis Bacon who said science will give you the power over nature that the human being is supposed to control the natural forces. That is what was quoted, right? I hadn't known of the man, but that was what they wrote. And that has been the – you remember that book on ethics I loaned you – it implied all through there that we were to control – we were unethical if we didn't put out every effort to control and destroy these diseases.
B: And what is the basic common thread? Is it not control? Again it is human control over other humans, correct?
Ralph: Humans control over those nasty bacteria. B: But it is still humans control over other humans.
Ralph: So that's why we invented antibiotics to get rid of the bacterial infections and antiviral drugs to get rid of the viral infections. B: And have they all worked?
Ralph: Well, we seem to come up with non-responsive viruses and bacteria. B: Is every human well and incapable of being ill?
Ralph: Nope. You are quite right. The moral issue is the big one. B: The moral issue is a problem as it is in your culture. That issue needs to change. You humans, doctors, do not to need to save or cure a disease. You are there to heal, not to cure.
Ralph: We are not to heal? B: You are there to heal.
Ralph: But that's what it means, healing means curing the disease. B: Not necessarily. No. You know that.
Ralph: There is one point that we have discussed that is going to be talking about over and over and that is in regard to our current large religious institutions that have decided what moral values to put on every action.
Charity: Their moral values as your Ten Commandments are?
Ralph: That is just a small sample. But now we get into things like birth control, abortion, all kinds of who should get transplants, and etc. Many, many things. They are saying that they are getting their principles from the highest power and none of these seem to fit what you are saying Essences are going to be telling these individuals who are having to make these decisions. And therefore these alleged higher powers are only their own Emotional Selves.
Charity: Which is correct.
Ralph: That is going to be very hard to persuade them, because they are saying, "My Essence told me to do that, that is directly from The Creator."
Charity: But just the avenue of what you are saying is with your tone of voice, with your enthusiasm, that is from the Emotional Self.
Ralph: And they get very vigorous about propounding these things.
Charity: Again that is the Emotional Self. That is not the Essence. The Essences only concern is with their charges benefit.
Ralph: Not with broad social cultural standards? of right and wrong?
Charity: No.
Ralph: See, that's the other thing. You are knocking out this basic right and wrong that is an inherent part of our civilization. The trouble is every civilization has a different set of rights and wrongs.
Charity: It is culture. Each of your generations has a different standards.
Ralph: And each one thinks theirs is the only right one.
Charity: But that is incorrect. As you can see, each one of your generations, your daughters think that your generation, your principles, ideas and values are archaic.
Ralph: Right.
Charity: That is what they think. When their children grow up, they will see it the same way.
Ralph: And each one will think their standards came from God. But God keeps changing his mind every thirty years.
Charity: The Creator does not change.
Ralph: But that is the impression they have to have.
Charity: But of course. And that is understandable. But by following these principles, you can see that The Creator does not change. The Creator is forever. The Creator does not care about social
controls.
Ralph: Oh, how could you say that? We have seen that from Moses on down, from the Ten Commandments. God told us to behave this way.
Charity: The Creator did not tell them that.
Ralph: Well, that is the word he passed on to his people.
Charity: It was not.
Ralph: And you are telling them that Moses made those up by himself.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: Well, I would say the CIE at that time needed them made up.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: So they made it appear as if this miracle occurred and God must be behind it.
Charity: We have an avenue in favor of that. If The Book is correct, which it is not, when your human called Moses came down from the mountain with the tablets, but then he broke them, correct? And therefore he had to make new ones. Did he make them? Or did he state that the Creator did? R: The Creator gave him the first ones.
Charity: But then he broke those.
Ralph: I presume he had to carve out new ones that he would believe are identical to the first ones.
Charity: How would Moses have remembered what the first ones were?
Ralph: His Essence memory was very good. That gave him a perfect chance to write in anything he wanted. And he had a responsibility to run this group of ragtag people who didn't know how to get along with each other.
Charity: Correct.
Charity: We know which buttons to push in you humans.
Ralph: I understand.
Charity: But you also have the Free Will to not listen to your buttons being pushed. Until you have had too much.
Ralph: Well, the thing is the purpose of pushing the buttons is to get me where Ill do better. It is not a punitive thing, it is not anything that causes me any problem.
Charity: It does not cause you harm.
Ralph: You can override my moral judgments which come from a culture, of what is the right thing for a guy like me to do. Do you stay in a marriage when you are suffering? We have been given that pitch of the evil of getting a divorce. This is the sin of sins in the Catholic church, you can never get a divorce. In Ireland where the law was against having a divorce for the last 50 years. And that's heavy, when you talk about a cultural blockade, taking a helpful action. We are having to fight those. You don't care about them and go on with your ??. We then don't have to feel badly because you went ahead and took care of it. Gets it off our back. But we haven't had the concept, and that concept Im not sure we want to put out in public pronouncements.
Charity: Why? R; Because then we are getting into the control issue.
Charity: Humans have a very interesting avenue regarding control. We control all that you humans do. But you humans choose somehow, with your own emotional part of yourself, your own Free Will, you try to ignore what we are doing. We still have our ways. We still get our ways.
Ralph: I know that. I've seen enough evidence of it.
Charity: But the process is for you humans to continue to fight. Continue to use Free Will because that is what makes yourself happy. Continue to do it. We will continue to have our way. So why fight?