This is a conversation between Ralph Allison and Charity, a Professor CIE.
Ralph: The other conflict then was the Jews and the sect that became the Christians, which was not anywhere else in the world.
Charity: No.
Ralph: There is only one God. But the Jews had labeled this as a vengeful God that would punish people that didn't obey His rules, and I have heard that in the Jewish temple since that time, which seems like bad, hostile parents.
Charity: Right
Ralph: It doesn't match. And Christ said, "It's a loving God that loves all of you even though you are doing awful things." Which is a more positive thing which is what my father was teaching, as an improvement over the Jewish God. But there still is only one. Nobody debated that and they would not have a god of this and a god of that and a god of the other. But then they also prided themselves on sacrificing themselves. Like Christ was killed, so if they were killed, they were like Christ, and you end up annihilating a large portion of the population that way, which is not a very productive way to proceed.
Charity: No, it is not.
Ralph: I couldn't quite see why they were all laying themselves open for execution.
Charity: What they saw in part of the Teacher was the aspect of a forgiving nature which most of the humans up until this time also do not have "a forgiving nature." They saw into the Teacher something that they wanted to have. Therefore that is why they were sacrificing themselves to be the same as what "The Teacher" was.
Ralph: Now, there is no mention in this manuscript about the belief in being reincarnated later, that this was any kind of a positive attitude, even though I know it was a part of the belief system of that time.
Charity: Yes it was.
Ralph: Did that play an important part? That they could say, "Go ahead and kill me. I'll be back later. " C: Yes
Ralph: So it didn't mean that much to them...
Charity: They believed that most fiercely that they would go ahead and offer themselves for that because they wanted to be part of that particular nature of The Teacher. But they also knew they were going to be coming back again to be "as the book states" to be reborn, even though that isn't .
Ralph: Actually, what it says in here is not the reincarnation concept. And it is what is believed by many now that Christ rose from the dead on the third day after his execution and therefore is they "believe in Christ," take Christ into their heart, they will rise from the dead, which meant the physical body would come up out of the grave and
Charity: At the appointed time. We have an answer to that aspect. Which life is going to be resurrected? Which body?
Ralph: Oh, I've heard you. That's why the two messages don't jive. And the reincarnation message doesn't jive with that one.
Charity: As we were stating, it was the start of the Great Deception.
Ralph: must go in a certain place and live in a certain building, and things like that, or attend a certain church, So you have much more broader rules. Like the Jews cannot drink out of certain dishes, and that is very strict. You can't use the pot for cooking that you are using for something else.
Charity: No.
Ralph: You don't care what kind of pot they use as long as they eat healthy food.
Charity: We don't care what kind of religion they care to worship. Just as long as it does not indoctrinate or change the role of the human at that time. We chose for them not to be a follower
of things and follow blindly. That is
Ralph: Instead of listening to their own Essence, listening to the turned Essence of a cult leader.
Charity: Most Correct.
Ralph: and they were going to be burned and destroyed, but the librarians decided to bury them in the desert instead. Thank you folks. And they finally dug them up 1500 years later. All part of the plan, of course. Now, we came to this question the other time about what did happen at the time of the crucifixion. First off, there is in here an excellent discussion of the way the Gospels write about the reasons for the crucifixion, who was responsible for it, being he was executed by the Roman governor, along with other criminals that had been sentenced by the Roman governor and yet it was the Jewish leaders, Sanhedrin, etc. that were accusing him of all these terrible things.
Charity: Misdeeds, yes
Ralph: Right, and they allegedly pressured the governor to execute him and the governor, according to the Bible, said, "No, he hasn't done anything wrong," and they list Herod, or is it Pontius Pilate, the one who said that – He was really a nasty guy in history, who executed anybody he cared to. He was not a patsy.
Charity: No
Ralph: So they give a false picture of the Roman governor of that day, who was really a very cruel person, and he wouldn't have cared what they accused him of, he would go ahead and execute him.
Charity: What, how do I explain this?
Ralph: So the writers here were trying to blame the orthodox Jews.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: And not blame the Romans, who were really in charge of execution.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: The only time the Jewish leaders could punish anybody was is they violated some religious law.
Charity: Correct, and they take it up with the Roman government to make sure that execution, or whatever else, was carried out. And they can say, therefore that the Romans are the ones that executed them, they did not.
Ralph: Well, in this case there is that appearance in the Bible to blame it all on the Jews. And therefore they have gotten blamed for killing Jesus and that's been a major problem for the Jews. Because then the Christians can say, "Well, you killed our leader and we can hate you therefore."
Charity: Therefore it fosters a beginning of an ethnic hatred.
Ralph: Antisemitism, par excellence
Charity: And so once it has done that, it is beginning to be sanctioned to all corners of your globe.
Ralph: That's not a very healthy thing.
Charity: Therefore the Deception has started as we told you, it was the Great Deception.
Ralph: OK, now was the execution – the other reason that the Romans would have wanted to execute him was that they were putting down everybody who was challenging their rule.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: And he was just one more out of hundreds, another young rebel
Charity: He was one who was creating havoc, that's correct. And they did not want him to be proclaimed as King of anything. And that was what they were proclaiming him as was King. Therefore they were usurping the authority of the Emperor at that time by making part of the Great Teacher a King onto their own right, when he was not.
Ralph: Well, did the Sanhedrin and Pharasees, who were the leading organizations of the Jewish church group, did they want to get him killed for some other reason.
Charity: The crescendo happened with them bringing to the ruling government at that time that this
human being was a detriment to them as leaders to make sure that the humans obeyed the laws of the government. By doing that, the government said, "Yes, you are most correct. We were thinking about destroying this human being anyway."
Ralph: OK, there is another interesting thing I didn't know about until I was reading here, and that is some 60-70 years after Christ's birth there was a revolt by the Jews against the Roman government and it was after that that the Gospels were written, that were accepted were written. And they were being written after the Jews had lost the battle, and they were struggling for survival and they didn't want to antagonize the Romans anymore.
Charity: What the Jews needed was some kind of strong positive self esteem that they could realize was there and they could follow it. That was what they needed. That was why they were written, but they were so deceived in the concept of different matters that the book was written.
Ralph: I'm just saying that between the time of Christ's life and later when those books were actually put down in black and white, there was the war
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: that the Jews lost, and therefore they were in the position of a losing enemy and they didn't dare write things or publicize things that would antagonize the Romans anymore.
Charity: Yes, of course.
Ralph: Then they were blaming the other Jews for this horrible deed, and making the Romans look like nice guys who were patsies.
Charity: That's correct.
Ralph: And that is what she says in here they were really interested in, keeping the Romans from annihilating them any further.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: So you see that as being a reasonable reason for it.
Charity: Yes.
Ralph: Now, at the time of the crucifixion and the three days and being born again, there we have again several different stories in here as to who they were talking to three days later and
Charity: As we told you, it was an image of the human that they had perceived and still knew as. If we had come to them as another entity or another energy life force, or into another human body, it would have not, the Great Deception could not have started. Therefore it was entered into that aspect that we brought the human back onto the earth to walk around and to say, "Hey, I'm here."
Ralph: OK, what happened to his physical body that was lying in the grave?
Charity: It was decayed and disappeared, basically.
Ralph: In three days?
Charity: Yea, we can do that.
Ralph: You superdecayed it? You speeded the process up?
Charity: You have to remember too
Ralph: You couldn't have it in two places?
Charity: No, we can't. You have to remember, too, back in those times, you had the, they say that, if I remember right, that the stone of the tomb was rolled and covered it, and when this female human came, she found the stone moved away from it? and there was nothing laying in the tomb when she came. First of all, when you have a boulder or rock is going to be rolled into it, it's not going to encase that body so that nothing can ever come inside.
Ralph: Certainly, air is going to come in.
Charity: Not only that but, how do we say this? but no other creatures can come in.
Ralph: Well, it was not a tight seal.
Charity: Do you understand what we're saying?
Ralph: You could get in there whether a rock was in front of it or not.
Charity: Do you understand what we're saying?
Ralph: With a rock in a door, you are going to have all kind of cracks around it. So
Charity: that creatures can get in to it and therefore
Ralph: Termites, ants do this all the time at our houses
Charity: and other matters of animals, yes. Therefore it, the body, was not there anymore, because there was nothing left of the body and whatever was not done away with, the rest of it was done away with by ourselves.
Ralph: So the physical body was
Charity: No more. It was not existing.
Ralph: Dust unto dust, yes, shall we say. It returned to it's original atomic parts
Charity: That's being nice, yes.
Ralph: It went back to its original atomic forms, but these people saw an image that was somewhat like.
Charity: It was the image of the human that they remembered.
Ralph: OK.
Charity: If we had chosen to come back as some other form, they would not have recognized it and the Deception could not have started.
Ralph: So he did not arise physically with the same body out of the grave after having been killed with all the knives and swords into him.
Charity: No. That was an illusion brought on by ourselves.
Ralph: He actually said that to several people in the non-published
Charity: He also said in the published version, "Don't touch me."
Ralph: So all these people who think they are going to rise from the dead
Ralph: No? Well we better get back and explain the Ten Commandments, then. Moses came down with his tablets and they were written there and he said they were written by God, if I remember the story correctly.
Charity: You can remember the story -
Ralph: That's all I've got -
Charity: It's a story
Ralph: Can you enlighten me? Because that is the basic rule for our civilized Christian country. The Mohammedan countries use Mohammed's rules.
Charity: The Creator does not have rules.
Ralph: That's important, let's clarify that. How come the Ten Commandments are as solid a contribution from the divine powers of the world as we have in our history? You say it is not the way the Creator tells us to do or not to do.
Charity: The Creator – there are no rules. As what you would define as rules.
Ralph: Wh000! You made your blockbuster, now would you elaborate on that?
Charity: Elaborate on "no rules"?
Ralph: Yes, We have the Ten Commandments that are definitely a set of rules that we are told came from the Creator.
Charity: That you were told
Ralph: Yes, that is what I am saying.
Charity: Where did the book that is telling you humans that this came from The Creator?
Ralph: It was a tradition that was passed on for many eras, whoever wrote the books of the Old Testament that go way way back. I can't give you the author obviously.
Charity: In other words, it was a human
Ralph: It was a tradition that was passed on through many eras of the Hebrew culture.
Charity: Which is another human line
Ralph: Obviously we can only read books written by humans.
Charity: So this is justified as a false word or a – It could either be a total falsehood or it could be a
rule that you humans needed to have at that time to make their lives justifiable with other culture. In our lives, what you call a rule is not a rule. It is a fact.
Ralph: Now we are getting some basic accepted principles that you are calling into question.
Charity: First of all
Ralph: Rules of God is a basic issue of all religions
Charity: It's not a rule. It is a fact. There are no rules in our realm.
Ralph: Well, I don't want to haggle on the meanings of words. But I have to represent the entire human race this way. We have a concept, that is propounded to everybody everywhere, and I heard it last in that Jewish synagogue, that everybody must learn the rules of God, then when you've learned them, you must obey them all.
Charity: There are no rules of The Creator.
Ralph: You are going to make a major controversy with just that statement alone. Just to let you know I'm just pointing this out. This is another sacred cow down the tubes. I have to deal with these sacred cows. I just have to understand why you are saying this. OK? But that particular, no. 1, thou shalt not kill, we consider a rule of God. That's the way it's labeled. Rule Number One. You say it is a principle to be followed by. OK. Nobody has a justification for killing any other human in their lives.
Charity: Any other Essence.
Ralph: Well, I don't have the right to kill Linda.
Charity: No, you don't.
Ralph: Now, however, in our culture, everyone of those ten commandments seems to have a list of exceptions. And one of the list of exceptions, for example, is in wartime. You train people to go out and kill other people as soldiers.
Charity: Correct.
Charity: That would be a reasonable explanation for another human to put that as a rule, but then use it as stating it, "It's not my rule," as stating the human, but God or The Creator's rule. That way it enforced why that rule was written down. Therefore as you say, it is not The Creator's rule.
Ralph: I think you are quite logical about that. I'm just pointing out that was the second one that Moses brought down to his tribe from the mountain top where he said God gave it to him. C: That makes two of the Ten Commandments. What's the third?
Ralph: I don't have the book here but I do know others – Thou shalt not covet other gods before me.
Charity: Thou shalt not covet –
Ralph: There shall be no other gods but me.
Charity: The Creator does not care who or what you worship, as we have told you. Just so long as you feel comfortable in your aspect and you have your spiritual growth. The Creator does not care. Therefore that is not another rule of The Creator.
Ralph: Well, we have that rule as being proposed by everyone of those religious groups. We discussed this earlier that there were earlier times when the Romans and Greeks were worshiping a whole raft of gods. Jew, Hebrews, Israelites, objected to that and said there is only one God and stop worshiping all these other Roman and Greek Gods. This would enforce that.
Charity: What you are listing again is another rule that is brought down by a human that stated that you cannot do this, that there is just one thing that you can worship, and that is the only thing you can worship, that is not my law, but the Creator's. Therefore the Creator would not have said that.
Ralph: The Creator did not care if they worshiped Zeus, and those other gods the Romans had?
Charity: Just as long as it helps your spiritual growth and you listen to your Essence.
Ralph: Didn't the Creator support this change over to the one God idea which is pretty general right now?
Charity: No.
Ralph: Didn't that make a difference on how people behaved?
Charity: No. The human population is still behaving the same way.
Ralph: Ok, it has not been an important factor in their improvement which would hopefully happen and you would want improvement over the decades.
Charity: Well, of course. But anything that will make the humans feel more comfortable in their longing and finding a way of communicating with their Essences, is fine with the Creator. The Creator does not worry about how to come about with spiritual understanding. Or with your communication with your Essence.
Ralph: It's interesting reading some of these history of philosophy books. Because there are even quotes in there from old literature that indicate that the God that the Hebrews were worshiping really wasn't the only God. He also had a mother who said, "Sonny boy, you're not the only one around here, so quite bragging," basically. Which is kind of funny. There appeared to be dialogue because they had the image of God as a Jealous God, who resented worship of Zeus, etc. that he wanted them to recognize him as the only God, and then they said that he had a mother who created him. That is a little confusing to me. I'm just pointing this out these are some of the things that are in the old literature, along the time this was written. So we have a concept of a very human, emotional God who is resentful if you don't put him up on the pedestal and nobody else. That's like, I'm the King. It's a temporary position for anybody. And they are seen in that way, that there is a Throne in Heaven where God is.
Charity: Ok so those are four of the Commandments. The first one is true, that you are never justified as a human to destroy another Essence. That is clear and simple, but what it sounds to us is that the human Moses came down and instead of telling them "you cannot kill or destroy anyone's Essence," he stated that "you could not destroy another human being."
Ralph: That's the problem we've been laid on, that the Jewish God was a very vengeful God who laid down all these rules. You couldn't eat this, you couldn't do something on the Sabbath, there is a whole list of rules for the Orthodox who thought that God was going to do some horrible thing to them if they couldn't follow them.
Charity: The Creator does not care what the human does because the human is a carcass. The Essence is what's important.
Ralph: But this is the image. I remember my father speaking that when Christ came, he presented a different, a loving forgiving God who didn't expect you to follow all these rules or you were a bad boy from the moment you were born. That puts an impossible burden on people.
Charity: Of course. That is a human concept that is supposed to make humans perfect, and therefore can be the Creator.
Ralph: That would be obviously be the goal, if you know all the rules of the Lord, then, if you follow all of those rules, you obviously are just like God. You are always going to miss one of them and that is where you fail.
Ralph: When I asked Dave Gotlib some things about Jewish traditions, as he was born into a Jewish family, one of the things he said, in his school they were forbidden to use any word for God, such as Yahweh, being the most common one they had use in the ancient Jewish times. That I think is how far they have gone, they can't even use the name, because it might he used for an evil purpose.
Charity: There were, first of all, there is no evil in our definition, in our space, and in our realm, there is no definition, there is no word, so how can The Creator say that if you use The Creator's name wrong, whichever the case would be, then it will be evil when there is no word in our language that states that aspect.
Ralph: So therefore, without time concept, you have no reason for seven days to go past anyway.
Charity: No.
Ralph: You wouldn't know when the Sabbath was.
Charity: No, we wouldn't know what day the Creator was supposed to start creating.
Ralph: And we do have some conflict there, which day is the Sabbath, anyhow? Some say it is Sunday and some say it is Saturday.
Charity: Do not some say it is Friday, also?
Ralph: The Jews start Friday and go through Sunday. I'm sure you have some somewhere who call it Tuesday, if they want to.
Charity: As we state, first and foremost, The Creator is not going to know it. We don't have time for that. I think that pretty well answers that avenue.
Ralph: So it doesn't make any sense to take a day off to rest?
Charity: The Creator does not need rest.
Ralph: But the humans do, they do better that way.
Charity: Right, therefore that is why they are stating that avenue. It's their rule.
Ralph: A good social rule.
Charity: Of course. But don't you not have priests and men who lead the worship who work on those days.
Ralph: I lived with one, remember.
Charity: Right.
Ralph: His biggest day was Sunday, and I was told he couldn't work on Sunday. Because of that rule. I didn't
Charity: The rule is not followed, is it not?
Ralph: Here we are with Becky and Ralph on 11-17-95. Lets see if this works. Yes. OK, now. You have to realize there is no experience that humans have with any human approaching them and totally accepting them. There is always a condition that "I will accept you if you will behave in a way – you will pay me money, or you will treat me nice, or you will wash my feet, or some gift that goes along with that acceptance. And that comes right from the old Jewish view of what God is like. When I went to the Jewish church for the Baby Naming for my granddaughter, the Rabbi said, "God will love you if you learn all his commandments." Then you have to follow them. But first you have to memorize all of them. And I said, "Therefore, if a Jewish mother wants to be like God, what else would you expect her to do?" The child must learn all her commandments before she could love it. I said, "No wonder they are messed up." And then you come along and you may disagree with me, you may tell me I made a booboo and I should have done elsewhere, or whatever, but I never felt any emotional condemnation or put down or anything. You delivered your message in a neutral emotional way. I love it. I can't, I don't go around feeling bad afterwards. I correct the mistake and that's it. I go about my business. But you have to realize there is no other experience that people have. Becky: Most humans just feel that way. As you state, the humans are usually right to expect something else from the humans.
Ralph: Still and all, I felt obligated to treat him nice and you know, because he hadn't done anything in front of me. I didn't have any legal right to kick him out of my office. I had to think up a fast story, and fortunately, I could think of a real good one. I didn't have anything to offer him. I told him to go somewhere else for – Many are not that obvious. It is just that you don't put down any guilt trips, it seems that parents are trained to do in our society. Talk about the Jewish mother. That's my son-in-law's mother who is very good at that. I watched her with her husband, "Oh, you can't do that. You shouldn't do that, you don't know how to do that. Only I know how to do everything right." Well, everything her husband did she labeled wrong. You know how I react to that. B: Of course.
Ralph: You never delivered those kind of guilt trips, so we are not used to, as human beings,
B: That's the avenue we used, you humans are not used to an honest straight forward discussion that are not loaded with guilt
Ralph: Sarcasm, B: Your planned ???You humans cannot understand that aspect of it. When you encounter it, though, its something you have to discount because it is too good to be true.