This is a conversation between Ralph Allison and Charity, a Professor CIE.
Charity: What you have quoted in terms to us as priests, or pastors or reverends or bishops, the pope. There was none of that. Our teaching was direct at that point in time. When part of the Great Teacher came down onto your earth,
Ralph: The one called Christus -
Charity: The one that has been called Jesus Christ,
Ralph: Known as Christus to the Romans, who claimed to be King of the Jews, why they executed him.
Charity: At that time humans had basically stopped listening to us. There was a movement on foot that our teaching was not giving the humans a free will to go about with what they needed to do. By bringing down part of the Great Teacher at that time, was to have the humans realize that with their free will the world that soon was going to happen was, is not destined to survive because of the attitude of the destruction, of hatred, of not following and listening to Essences, by doing their own free will. Before that time, when we were doing our aspect of teaching and they were most cooperative, they enjoyed and were beginning to revere ourselves. We did not want that to happen. We wanted the humans to
Ralph: That's where we had all these gods to worship?
Ralph: He says that his counselor/Essence referred to is "I believe to be the Holy Spirit. "Now the CIE have been what has been known as the Holy Spirit, as part of the Great Teacher. Well, I'll – I don't know if he wants to hear it , is the problem. His definition of this
Charity: Go ahead and read the definition
Ralph: this counselor regarding Truth, and to convict him of wrong thoughts. That's a big thing, that can depend upon how my eyeballs work. I could be delusional and think it's purple.
Charity: That's correct.
Ralph: I'll be correct from my own viewing of it.
Charity: Right, that is correct.
Ralph: So it's kind of hard to know what wrong thoughts, feelings and behaviors are.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: So he is the one "who indwells me and aids my understanding of the will of the Heavenly Father as well as facilitating a more intimate relationship with God Incarnate Jesus Christ."
Charity: That is nonsense.
Ralph: Then he says " it is Jesus Christ"
Charity: So, which is which? We need a clarification of what he means by "inner dwells."
Ralph: Just taking that much, can you give me any clues what he's talking about?
Charity: Laughs– What he is quoting is that he was "born again." That's what he has been indoctrinated with. This is his "thoughtform" that is entered onto himself that has indoctrinated him unto the idea of what "the Scriptures" state.
Ralph: Coming from his physical live teacher?
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: Which is where it has to start in the first place.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: Thoughtforms start
Charity: Correct
Ralph: Here's where we got that. "It has been given to me upon my request to dwell within me many years ago." So he was a person way past birth.
Charity: That's what we need to have him understand, that is "of Jesus Christ." Again that is a part of The Great Teacher, down to any human.
Ralph: All these people who tell me from the pulpit or from testimonials that they have Jesus Christ
as living within them and guiding them everyday, are wrong?
Charity: That's correct.
Ralph: Another sacred ox.
Ralph: Alright. So his next comment is "It is often difficult to sort through what is my flesh or humanness and what is truly source from the spirit of the living Christ"
Charity: We know it is difficult for him to decide which is part of his free will and which is part of his Essence. But it is not the spirit of the living Christ. We are most sorry on that aspect. It is Essence, not spirit. The spirit of Christ again is there for, again, a part of the Teacher.
Ralph: Correct, that's what she's pointing out here. You've got four different men writing four different books about the same general area and subject matter. OK, written at different times from different perspectives. From different religions, Now when it comes to "the son of God" statement, here is one which is written in the Gospel of Thomas, which was not approved for the Bible, and where it is stated more "The kingdom of God symbolized a state of transformed state consciousness," and not some physical place where Christ will be the legal ruler.
Charity: Right
Ralph: Which is something he could not get over to his disciples.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: Nor to the Romans who executed him for saying, "I'm the King of the Jews."
Charity: Correct
Ralph: It is "one enters that kingdom when one attains self knowledge." And that is what the Gospel of Thomas, which of course was rejected by the people who put the Bible together. So then, in that one, when he says, "Who is Jesus?" they give a different answer from that in the Gospels in the New Testament. Mark, for example, depicts Jesus as a utterly unique being, the Messiah, God's appointed King. According to Mark, it was Peter who discovered the secret to Jesus' identity and he asked, "And who do you say that I am?" and Peter answers him, "You are the Messiah." But the Gospel of Thomas tells a different story and, when he said, "Compare me to someone and tell me who I am like," Simon Peter tells him, "You are like a righteous messenger. " Matthew says, "You are like a wise philosopher." And Thomas says, "My mouth is wholly incapable of saying whom you are like." And according to these interpretations, Matthew's claim was that he was a Rabbinic teacher, Peter said he was the Messiah, righteous messenger, but Thomas represented an inferior level of understanding and could not assign a specific role to him. He transcended that moment of relationship of disciple to master and Jesus declare that Thomas has become like himself. "I'm not your master for you have drunk and become drunk of the bubbling spring. Whoever drinks from my mouth will become as I am, and I myself will become that person and things that are hidden will be revealed to him." Then it says, according to John, Jesus is not a mere human being, but a divine eternal word of God, God's only begotten son who descends to earth in human form to rescue the human race from eternal damnation. Now that's the key thing they keep bringing up.
Charity: We have a question for you. If the Creator had created a son, why would he send his "son" down when he has ourselves to do his work?
Ralph: I don't know.
Charity: The Creator is eternal. Therefore the Creator does not need to fashion a son to replace the Creator, because The Creator is forever.
Ralph: Well, that's why I have been a little bit confused. OK, here is the quote out of John which we hear, John 3:16-18: "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believed in him should not perish but have everlasting life. Whoever believes in him is not condemned but whoever does not believe in him is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten son of God." Now that's quoted over and over again.
Charity: We are sorry, but again our question is, If the Creator is to live forever, why would he fashion
a son to take over when the Creator is no more? Is that not
Ralph: Which only lived 33 years.
Charity: Right
Ralph: Well, OK, now Thomas has a different message.
Charity: Answer our question.
Ralph: I don't have an answer to it. I'm just saying we were talking about
Charity: that long statement that makes no sense.
Ralph: Anyhow, there is a lot about human mother Mary and about they had to – Thomas offers a different message, far from regarding himself as the only begotten son of God, Jesus says to his disciples, "When you come to know yourselves, and discover the divine within you, then you will recognize that it is you who are the sons of the living father."
Charity: Correct
Ralph: "just like Jesus."
Charity: Correct
Ralph: Now the Gospel of Philip, which again was not approved for the Bible
Charity: Of course,
Ralph: makes the same point. One is to become not a Christian but a Christ. This I believe is a symbolic meaning, the writer says, is attributing the Gospel of Thomas to Jesus' twin brother. In effect, you, the reader, are the twin brother of Christ, when you recognize the divine within you. Then you will see, as Thomas does, that you and Jesus are, so to speak, identical twins.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: Now that is something I can relate with.
Charity: Relate with
Ralph: Now, one who seeks to become not a Christian but a Christ, no longer looks only at Jesus and later to its church and its leaders as most believers do, as a source of all truth, so while the Jesus of the Gospel of John declares, "I am the door. Whoever enters through me shall be saved," the teaching of Silvanus points in a different direction. "Knock upon yourself as upon a door, and walk upon yourself as upon a straight road, for if you walk upon that road, it is impossible for you to go astray. Open the door for yourself, so you may know what is. Whatever you will open for yourself, you will open."
Charity: Correct
Ralph: "Why did the majority of the early Christians reject such writings as Thomas and accept other, possibly later accounts such as Matthew, Mark, Luke and John? Thomas appeals to people engaged in spiritual transformation but it does not answer the practical questions of potential converts who lived in and near Jewish communities scattered throughout the cities of Palestine and the imperial provinces. New converts asked questions like these: Do you want us to fast? How shall we pray? Shall we give alms? Are believers to follow traditional practices or not? According to the Gospel of Thomas, when disciples asked the living Jesus these very questions, he refuses to give them specific directions, answering only, "Do not tell lies, and do not do what you hate, for all things are manifest in the sight of heaven."" That didn't tell them what to eat.
Charity: Of course not. It's not going to, either.
Ralph: Isn't that strange? This enigmatic answer leaves each person with his or her own conscience. for who else knows when one is lying? And who else knows what one hates? Profound as such an answer may be, it offers no programmatic guidelines for group instruction, much less for the formation of a religious institution. The gospels included in the New Testament, by contrast, do offer such guidelines. According to Matthew and Luke, for example, Jesus specifically answers each one of these questions authoritatively and specifically. "When you pray, say "Our Father which art in Heaven, etc." When you fast, wash your face. When you give alms, do so in secret. The rules are laid out.
Charity: Right.
Ralph: The rules of God are stated.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: In only the four that were published, and not in the 30 others that were not.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: As for the cultural laws, Mark says that Jesus proclaimed all foods clean. Furthermore, while Thomas says that finding the Kingdom of God requires undergoing a solitary process of self- discovery, which I think you've been trying to encourage
Charity: Of course
Ralph: the Gospels of the New Testament offer a far simpler message. One attains to God, not by spiritual self knowledge, but by believing in Jesus, the Messiah. Now that God has sent salvation through Christ, repent, accept baptism and forgiveness of sins, join God's people and receive salvation. That's much simpler than doing any thinking. I know.
Charity: How is that simpler? We don't understand.
Ralph: You follow somebody else's rule.
Charity: So, in other words, it turns into a cult system.
Ralph: You said that, not me. I'm saying that, going back in her other work, it was a matter of the times and there was the Gnostics who were saying, "Look up to your Essence and listen and pay attention since that is where you are getting all the answers." Also, they could only deal with highly mature people. They could not deal with baby Essences. Obviously they were not ready for this. Now, when you are doing that, you are dealing with a small percentage of the total population. Like, with multiple, maybe 8% of the population can do that to begin with. A church can't afford to operate on only 8% of the population. They need a lot more to pay the fees to run those churches and to fill up its congregational seats in the churches. So they, the bishops, decided that we must make it easier to get into our church. So all we need to do is say, " Everybody come in here, say this little ritual, dunk your head under water, and he baptized and you can be a member." Now it's a lot easier to get a lot of people that way then to expect them to learn anything while maturing.
Charity: So, in other words, by believing in something that will take care of you humans for a eternity, is a lot easier than trying to come to the realization yourself that you are what you are and you need to take care of yourself along with others. Is that not correct?
Ralph: Well, what I am saying is – I'm pointing out that the Gnostics were interested in personal spiritual improvement. And they spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to do this, the same as I have.
Charity: Of course you have.
Ralph: And they had their teachers, like you are, trying to assist them in this search. OK. They didn't get many people joining their little clubs because not too many people wanted to sit around and try to improve themselves by philosophizing.
Charity: It was too difficult?
Ralph: Yea, and because there is only a certain small portion of any society that are interested in doing that. There may be others out there more interested in raising cows, or collecting taxes, or running armies, or doing those things they got praised for by the other people. Well, the church decided they couldn't afford to run on only this small portion of society that were looking for truth therein. They wanted to be available to the masses. They went after the other 90% instead of the 10% who were Gnostics. Now what are these other 90% doing? You give them a simple set of rules. "You can become a member of our club if you will swear allegiance to our leader, pray to our leader, say hello to our flag, and follow this little set of rules. You can learn that in five minutes." But to sit and think and philosophize and learn yourself, that takes years. They weren't
going to wait around for that.
Charity: We can understand that.
Ralph: So they wanted a volume of people who would fill up the churches. Who are folks going to lead around if they don't have a mass group? They are not going to lead Gnostics around. They aren't even going to listen to them in the first place.
Charity: Ok, you're correct.
Ralph: So that's where the organized churches went for the masses. To do that, you have a baptism, you have a ritual, you have a small code of belief system. "Jesus Christ, died, etc." Believe that – you're in. "Yes, I believe in Jesus Christ." Well, our inmates out at prison are doing this all the time in the chapel. They don't know who they are or what they are doing. They are very immature people spiritually.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: But they become part of the whole worldwide body of Christ this way. Now, that's quite an accomplishment for people who have been on the outs.
Charity: Right, we understand that.
Ralph: So, that was a very practical way to go instead of expecting – you're not going to recruit into the church very many gnostics because they are not going to listen to the bishop.
Charity: Right
Ralph: They are no use whatsoever in raising money to build a new chapel.
Charity: OK, we understand that. You understand on how you can answer him?
Ralph: Not really. I'm sorry, we've got one last line down here. Let me also point out here and maybe you can clarify this one, as he mentions that "the angel of the Lord," he is talking about Jesus " being given flesh in union with his human mother Mary and the spirit of the living God. Now, here again, we have the immaculate conception idea.
Charity: Is that the term, is that the one that they state that the Creator entered a human and created a baby?
Ralph: That is exactly what it says here.
Charity: That is impossible.
Ralph: Let me clue you in on the why of that one. That's covered in here too. This gal's really got a lot of ideas. The concern was that, again, that was part of the terminology of the day, the translation, they – it is unclear whether or not Mary, mother of Christ, and Joseph, listed as his father, were married or not at the time of his birth. If they were married, there is no problem. But, one translation of the word that they use for Mary, which was basically "young woman," was as a virgin. She had not had sexual intercourse. And therefore, when she became pregnant, it was an illegitimate pregnancy. Now, the writers could not support a person with an illegitimate pregnancy to be King of the Jews.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: So they had to make a story that she was not illegitimately pregnant, she was pregnant by God. This husband over here got nowhere near her. And Joseph never had sexual intercourse with her. Therefore it was not an illegitimate pregnancy, because they weren't married yet. It was a divine pregnancy. And I'm saying, that's the way they wanted to cover themselves in case the translators made this an unwed woman having a baby.
Charity: First of all, that's incorrect. Because The Creator cannot do that.
Ralph: I didn't think he needed to. If he wanted to make a baby, he could make a baby. It would be right there. C; The Creator has created everything. Why should he bother to create another human being when the human beings are creating themselves?
Ralph: I'm just saying that this was the political cover of the possible illegitimacy of Christ. They were very concerned about his physical heritage. It's like kings. You've got to be the son of a king
and the grandson of a king to become a king. If he wasn't the grandson of some great people, then he was not eligible.
Charity: Right.
Ralph: I don't think there was any guarantee that Mary and Joseph were or were not married. Nobody knows that.
Charity: Right, but the term that we are stating here is that, first of all, The Creator does not need to do that. The Creator is not going to do that. If The Creator chose to make another human being, to make another human being and place it onto the world
Ralph: He made the first ones, anyhow.
Charity: Right, so why would The Creator bother to have a human carry a so-called seed of The Creator when The Creator has no gender basis anyway?
Ralph: Wouldn't have any sperm hanging around anywhere, either.
Charity: The Creator has no body parts.
Ralph: Right. He's got nothing to contribute.
Charity: So that's our question. How can that be, when The Creator is not a gender based entity?
Ralph: Well, let me ask you then bluntly, was Jesus the Christ, the bona fide regular child of Mary and Joseph who were listed in the census as his parents? Born, just like I was with my parents?
Charity: I don't know if you are ready for this.
Ralph: OK. That sounded like a simple question.
Charity: It might blow your belief system away.
Ralph: Look, I already lost every belief system.
Charity: Yes, it was their child. Pure and simple, it was their child. It was nobody else's child hut theirs.
Ralph: They came to Bethlehem and the child was born while on the trip. It's OK.
Charity: That's normal aspect. They were married, they had a baby.
Ralph: They planned the whole thing?
Charity: Right.
Ralph: OK, because also, we talked about the Essences having control of the pregnancies, so if their was not need for a baby, Mary's Essence would have stopped the pregnancy.
Charity: Right, that's correct. But you have to remember that part of the Great Teacher had to be born and that was part of the Great Teacher.
Ralph: And that was the last incarnation. He had been born many many times before building up to this, right?
Charity: Yes.
Ralph: Alright, so we don't need this.
Charity: It needs to be answered, though.
Ralph: You are going to get a lot of blows for this one. Alright.
Charity: I'm not answering the message back, you are.
Ralph: I may or may not get around to it this year.
Charity: Dearest, yes, you will.
Ralph: Please. This is about as sensitive a subject as you are going to get.
Charity: Either you will or we will.
Ralph: Why to you think it is important for him to have these things commented about?
Charity: He is asking fully and honestly the way he feels. He is the subject to be regarded as a total falsehood on the subject. He is just one of them.
Ralph: Well, he certainly has a collection of them. "He then walked among them as Jesus of Nazareth, and communicated teaching of his Father, as his Father had given him permission to do, even unto death."
Charity: Is he talking regarding the nature of The Creator?
Ralph: I think that's what I would assume.
Charity: So he is the communicating the teaching and the nature of his Essence?
Ralph: If you are talking about His Father, everybody in there has always said that's God.
Charity: Well, "he is given the teaching and nature of his Essence"
Ralph: "during the time of teaching," let's back up here, in his history, at his birth he had his Essence which had been in incarnations many times.
Charity: Yes
Ralph: Building up to this crescendo. And was the very favored one and was prepared for this. So he's a nice little kid. But he didn't go out and teach anybody till he was over 12 years old. Now, you indicated to me once before that at some point along the line all of his CIE took over.
Charity: Right.
Ralph: to be basically the teachers.
Charity: The last part of it.
Ralph: and can you give me a clue as to at what point that change occurred?
Charity: It was to the point of being the last three years of his existence. That was the most of the teachings were involved and quoted into the Book.
Ralph: And they were contributing to all of these comments to the people that we have writing them down here.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: And unfortunately, he didn't write any of his own that we can be sure about
Charity: That's correct.
Ralph: That I think was a tactical error.
Charity: It was not.
Ralph: Oh come on, I've got a right to disagree with you. Think of how much trouble we would have saved if he'd put it down himself.
Charity: Then the Great Deception could not happen.
Ralph: He was telling the truth, of course, he had to be telling the truth himself.
Charity: Yes
Ralph: That's a peculiar concept then, How does his telling the truth turn into a Great Deception. That's the mystery.
Charity: His telling the truth was then translated and then rearranged by each time it was told. Therefore the Deception was able to start as soon as the existence of the last of the Great Teacher had concluded and the Deception can then start.
Ralph: Well, obviously, none of these people wrote it down. Now, they don't know who wrote the four Gospels in the Bible. They are very clear about that. There is no guarantees as to who those people really were. They used the names but that doesn't mean there was anybody by that name.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: And they do know they were at least 100 years later, which is three generations of father-son.
Charity: Yes
Ralph: Not even of teachers, which might be ten years, so it could be ten generations of student- teachers,
Charity: That's correct. So therefore the message has become contaminated.
Ralph: Certainly it would be distorted under any circumstances.
Charity: Very distorted.
Ralph: He did not put his words down to be compared against anything.
Charity: That's right.
Ralph: Like you are being very careful to be doing this time. OK. Now, so we don't know what he really said, so we have four to seven different versions with these other gospels which, the ones that make more sense were the ones who were hidden from the authorities.
Charity: Right.
Ralph: and they were going to be burned and destroyed, but the librarians decided to bury them in the desert instead. Thank you folks. And they finally dug them up 1500 years later. All part of the plan, of course. Now, we came to this question the other time about what did happen at the time of the crucifixion. First off, there is in here an excellent discussion of the way the Gospels write about the reasons for the crucifixion, who was responsible for it, being he was executed by the Roman governor, along with other criminals that had been sentenced by the Roman governor and yet it was the Jewish leaders, Sanhedrin, etc. that were accusing him of all these terrible things.
Charity: Misdeeds, yes
Ralph: Right, and they allegedly pressured the governor to execute him and the governor, according to the Bible, said, "No, he hasn't done anything wrong," and they list Herod, or is it Pontius Pilate, as the one who said that – He was really a nasty guy in history, who executed anybody he cared to. He was not a patsy.
Charity: No
Ralph: So they give a false picture of the Roman governor of that day, who was really a very cruel person, and he wouldn't have cared what they accused him of, he would go ahead and execute him.
Charity: What, how do I explain this?
Ralph: So the writers here were trying to blame the orthodox Jews.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: And not blame the Romans, who were really in charge of execution.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: The only time the Jewish leaders could punish anybody was is they violated some religious law.
Charity: Correct, and they take it up with the Roman government to make sure that execution, or whatever else, was carried out. And they can say, therefore that the Romans are the ones that executed them, they did not.
Ralph: Well, in this case there is that appearance in the Bible to blame it all on the Jews. And therefore they have gotten blamed for killing Jesus and that's been a major problem for the Jews. Because then the Christians can say, "Well, you killed our leader and we can hate you therefore."
Charity: Therefore it fosters a beginning of an ethnic hatred.
Ralph: Antisemitism, par excellence
Charity: And so once it has done that, it is beginning to be sanctioned to all corners of your globe.
Ralph: That's not a very healthy thing.
Charity: Therefore the Deception has started as we told you, it was the Great Deception.
Ralph: OK, now was the execution – the other reason that the Romans would have wanted to execute him was that they were putting down everybody who was challenging their rule.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: And he was just one more out of hundreds, another young rebel
Charity: He was one who was creating havoc, that's correct. And they did not want him to be proclaimed as King of anything. And that was what they were proclaiming him as was King. Therefore they were usurping the authority of the Emperor at that time by making part of the Great Teacher a King onto their own right, when he was not.
Charity: So why try to be something or attain something that is totally unobtainable.
Ralph: Because that makes you like Christ. I think that would be the card that they would use.
Charity: And Christ was supposed to have been the son of The Creator
Ralph: Because he never had sex with anyone all his life.
Charity: And the Son of The Creator, again, you are waiting for a question to be answered by Andy,
again, if The Creator had chosen to make a son, and first of all if the Creator had a gender, and second of all then the Creator is going to ??, correct.
Ralph: That would be a logical extension of that concept.
Charity: So why would The Creator make a son?
Ralph: No, that is Mary and the baby Jesus. But I'm saying that's a sample of the kind of art work that they have in the Russian churches we saw, walls and walls of them, Icons. They do this as a regular business.
Charity: The Creator does not care if you do anything like that. The Creator does not care if you make any kind of idols or anything else. The Creator is not a human being and therefore not prone to caring of an image or a picture.
Ralph: And that's what they have done. They take that and it becomes our criminal law. But all I can say is that the people who are Bible Toting Christians, they carry their Bible with them all the time, so they can look in a page and quote anything they want to support any idea they want to. Anywhere in her you can find a page that you can use to support any concept you want to.
Charity: Why would you want to do that?
Ralph: It's a sacred book that you can't argue with. Because God wrote it, we are told.
Charity: The Creator would not like that.
Ralph: Well, that is what all the churches teach all their members. I have to face that belief. (Bible reading that makes no sense)
Ralph: My dad stuck pretty much to the New Testament, to things that Christ is quoted as having said. Though we have these other books here which indicate quite likely he didn't, that many of these things were made up by the writers several hundred years later.
Charity: Of course they were.
Ralph: Again, as a use of Christ as the person saying things they wanted people to hear.
Charity: It is part of the Great Deception, as we have explained.
Ralph: We have this one. This is a good one. "I praise you because you always remember me and follow the teachings that I have handed on to you, but I want you to understand that Christ is supreme over every man, the husband is supreme over his wife, and God is supreme over Christ. So a man who prays or proclaims his message in public worship with his head covered praises Christ. And any woman who prays or proclaims God's message in public worship with nothing on her head disgraces her husband and there is no difference between her and a woman whose head has been shaved. If a woman does not cover her head, she might as well cut her hair. And since it is a shameful thing for a woman to shave her head, or cut her hair, she should cover her head. A man has no need to cover his head because he reflects the image and glory of God. A woman reflects the glory of man because man is not created from woman but woman from man."
Charity: We don't understand.
Ralph: That is what we call a sexist statement, which would
Charity: It is putting down another human being. You should not put down another human being. Why would a part of The Great Teacher choose to put down another human being?
Ralph: But they put this in Christ's own words in here. In quotes, that makes it very powerful. How can they argue with it?
Charity: Why would part of the Great Teacher ever say anything in the avenue of hate, that's the best word we can think of, and put them on another species that The Creator created? And part of The Great Teacher is supposed to be the Son of The Creator. Why would The Creator deem for his Son to say those things to something The Creator has created?
Ralph: I have no answer, of course.
Charity: We would like to know why.
Ralph: For some reason, I'm just pointing out, the religious, in the Christian identification with
Christ arising from the dead, he had a perfect body, and you, too, will have a perfect body. This is all part of that result.
Charity: But what you humans call a physical body, you want a physical carcass. That's not going to happen.
Ralph: They don't see anything else as being possible.
Ralph: There has been a psychiatrist named W. Scott Peck, who has written a number of books on religious aspects of psychiatry. And made lot of speeches, and in the last book he was sort of into Buddhism and now he has come back and is defining himself as a Christian.
Charity: OK
Ralph: This was his own statement. One thing I didn't care much for in the first book I read of his was that he recommended psychiatry take on the job of treating all evil people.
Charity: There is no term for evil.
Ralph: In his book there was. This is all about the guys in prison who are raping and murdering and such. They violated all of our rules in society. Basically who we would call psychopaths that are Turned Essences, is your term.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: I said I didn't like that idea, that psychiatrists should be given the job of treating and expecting to cure people who are perpetually into misconduct.
Charity: Right.
Ralph: Ten percent of the population are homosexual, if you add them up. In any culture, any group, any nation, about 10% prefer the same sex for their attraction. And they just happen to be the group who have ???
Charity: They don't have a problem
Ralph: Well we have the religious right who look in the Bible and it clearly says in the Bible that man should not do that. God disapproves of that. It says so right there.
Charity: Show me where it says that.
Ralph: I'm not going to pull the Bible down cause I'm not a religious writer hut lye heard it quoted, hut you can find anything quoted too, but
Charity: We have already stated
Ralph: Man wrote it.
Charity: Right. The Creator does not care.
Ralph: The real thing is as many books I have on Jesus teaching, people writing these manuals were writing to large groups, not to individuals, and in large groups, homosexual behavior does not keep children being produced, so that is not good for increasing the work population. So they wouldn't want that since you wouldn't have enough children to do all the jobs you have in an expanding economy. So its not good for the group. But for that 10% its fine.
Charity: It was written by man.
Ralph: Exactly, I'm sure you don't understand it because I don't understand it. For example, Oral Roberts was on this program.
Charity: Oh, we know.
Ralph: And he got started when he had TB when he was a teenager. And he had been a trouble maker and a ne'er-do-well apparently before that. He was not going according to what his family wanted him to do.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: And everybody else got TB and died. He got TB and I think it made a great impact on him, that everybody had died just before he did. So I think he was afraid of dying.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: But he felt that he had faith in God at that moment. And because he had faith in God, who then could heal him, is why he got well. They make a point of this over and over again that –
and the Christian Scientists do this all the time – if you have enough faith in God, God will heal you. When you don't get healed, its your fault for not having enough faith. That's the way they look at it.
Charity: What we are stating on that aspect is first of all, if it is in your life plan to get well, you will get well. Period. Your Essence will take care of it.
Ralph: You are very clear about that. And if you have faith in God while this is happening,
Charity: You have faith in it?
Ralph: I'm not sure what that means, you see? to them
Charity: We think they were stating is if you have enough belief in something in the Creator to bring about a physical well being, that it will bring about a physical well being. If you have enough belief. But if you don't believe strongly enough, therefore you as a human have failed. Therefore you have a concept that you as a human must have enough faith – if you do not have enough belief system, then you are not going to get well. If you do not get well, you did not have a strong enough belief system. Why do you humans choose to do that?
Ralph: I'm taking from that that that is not a correct interpretation as to why people get well.
Charity: No.
Ralph: You have said that already, I'm just pointing it out. Having enough faith in God is not going to create the cure.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: If your plan is to get sick and die.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: The thing is that the preacher on this program kept referring to him and not just in the name of Jesus or his spirit, or anything like that, but The Blood of Jesus Christ gives us this kind of power to do things. I'm just saying, it loses me. Again, it seems to mean something to them, I miss.
Charity: You have to remember about what preachers are.
Charity: Humans believe in that avenue. A great majority do, but they do not talk about it. You have the other parts of it that believe Christianity, believe in the matter of no incarnation. Those humans will be coming your way, to start, so be prepared.
Ralph: What they are doing is they are hearing Christ. That is what their Essence is being labeled as. Christ within me is the term. They are turning their life over to Christ and therefore – I'm not sure what he is saying to them. They go out and do rather weird things that don't necessarily agree with
Charity: The avenue of turning your existence over to Christ is not taking responsibility for free will that you humans exercise. Your Essence does not want you to give up yourself to them. Your Essence would like for you to listen to them, to make your life plan easier.
Ralph: To cooperate is the word.
Charity: But it is not to give up. It is as you know, you human beings need to work and to move. You do not need to sit back there and say, "OK, my Essence, please tell me what I need to do. And I will not do anything until I hear from you."
Ralph: That's not your advice then.
Charity: No.
Ralph: I think that is where you are going to get a lot of arguments from these people. Looking at these Christians who say, "I let Christ in my heart, and therefore I do A, B or C." Some of the A, B, and Cs have been assaulting people who have done abortions in abortion clinics, being in favor of the death penalty, getting these bad people executed so they won't be running around doing had things against others. Those are two favorites.
Charity: Our avenue again is not following what an Essence will do. The Creator does not care. The Creator cares that you as humans stop interfering in our actions.
Ralph: So what I'm saying is that if that is the action they feel Christ leads them to do, they have not even labeled their Essence correctly.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: Their Essence could be called Christ if they wished to.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: But no Essence is going to be supporting these kinds of violent behaviors.
Charity: No.
Ralph: Certainly they themselves are not in danger from these violent people.
Charity: Of course not.
Ralph: These are beliefs that are coming from religiously supported groups, all of whom feel that somehow their religions mandates these stands.
Charity: But does it not mandate that other humans religion is incorrect? Therefore all of those humans in that religion need to be destroyed?
Charity: A human characteristic is God, therefore it is important. The Creator is perfect. The Creator has no human characteristics. The Creator is not human. The Creator is energy.
Ralph: Intelligent Energy at that.
Charity: Yes.
Ralph: Which equals consciousness.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: Which all of us have a little biddy piece of.
Charity: Yes, very minute.
Ralph: But it is still the same stuff, as we said.
Charity: Yes. To put The Creator on the same physical plane as yourself, is an injustice.
Ralph: What about those individuals who worship Christ? That is certainly a very common attitude.
Charity: It is a common part of the religion in this part of your globe. And we understand that, but it is still the same aspect. The Great Teacher, any part of the Great Teacher, is not a worship aspect.
Ralph: So Jesus Christ is not a worshipful subject either.
Charity: No. He had a human body. Why worship a human who had a human body?
Ralph: Well, I think it is that they consider him to be a Son of God and therefore something specially related to God, but they are not. I see this as a worshipful
Charity: The thing we state is The Creator is energy. Why would The Creator cease to exist to make a son for a replacement?
Ralph: That's a side of him which does not fit into the great noble picture. We have others, like the religious leaders who were apparently noble in everything they did. However it was interesting with Jesus, Mary Magdalene was the one lady that was always by his side, a prostitute, and according to his own disciples, he taught her more than he taught the male disciples, and they rejected her because they couldn't have a woman in the church after he died. But still and all, they very carefully kept all women from having a part of the organization they put together afterwards.