This is a conversation between Ralph Allison and Charity, a Professor CIE.
Ralph: We talked about this, that they have these stock phrases of "believe in, horn again," these kind of words which, to my mind, have never had any inherent meaning. But they all seem to know what they mean, and if they all have this then this makes them better people, but they don't do anything differently, you know. They don't go out and change the world in any way. In fact some get more bigoted and more narrow-minded and intolerant than they were before. They now have a reason behind this intolerance. I was talking to PJ about her daughter who is now married to a Pentecostal preacher, who got religion. What are you up to? ???
Ralph: There – as Linda was saying that she went to these churches because she felt a need, which obviously a lot of people do. I'm thinking, what is that need they have that the churches capitalize on? And therefore what can be done about it in a better way?
Charity: The humans feel the loss of ourselves. That's what the humans feel. They feel the loss of ourselves and the loss of their own contact with their own Essence. That's what is missing.
Ralph: Well, then what are the tools that you have got to meet that situation rather than
Charity: We are looking at them right now.
Ralph: Not many people are going to talk to you through another body.
Charity: We are looking at you right now.
Ralph: ME? My son said I can't set up a new church, I can't do that. I agreed with him that I would not.
Charity: We don't want a church.
Ralph: I know, I'm just saying that's what it appears to him.
Charity: It's not.
Ralph: Then it doesn't matter how much you say about religions
Charity: We already talked about on the religious aspect, on religions and yourselves have to have a leader to be able to bring about their own beliefs onto the masses. Correct?
Ralph: Well, that's what happens. Now, I'm just asking this as an academic question. It seems every culture has had a religion.
Charity: Yes.
Ralph: Not everybody in that culture operates within that religion. But certainly every area of the world has had their religion. That has tried to bring in everybody they could to join that religion.
Charity: Which is again a religion.
Ralph: Right. I'm just saying, I have to therefore assume that there is some benefit to all those people to have the religion, which is different than being spiritual, I understand that. But they do do that, and some people feel so much better by doing that. And they keep doing it over the centuries.
Charity: If you would look at it on the way that we see it, the reason why the humans go to religions, as we have stated, they feel they are missing something. Of course they are missing something, they are missing their contacting and their direct communication with their Essence. That's why the humans were going to the religions. But there is a tide, a culture shift, a culture change that is happening now, that a lot of humans are coming away from that and asking questions, going to buildings that do not have a religion, a set of beliefs, that you can believe, question anything that you choose to. By the questions that are happening and the sightings of miracles, the angel theology that is happening, there is a more of a cultural shift into the aspect that there is something else, that the religion cannot offer.
Ralph: Well that me then ask, considering many people feel that religion does answer whatever they are looking for. Are they looking and going and going in such numbers? What is it that it is doing?
Charity: A lot of religions also offer stability, the social obligations, the feeling of helping another human,
Ralph: The community fellowship
Charity: A community unto its own self.
Ralph: In early America, the church was the major social meeting center.
Charity: And that is still the way it operates now, but as you have noticed, the hope that there is a shift, what used to be a very somber, the music was very subdued, there was not any encouragement to bring forth new ideas.
Ralph: Very traditional, everything had to be centuries old.
Charity: But now with the generation shift, the religions, the churches, the buildings, are coming about with new music, new ways of experiencing different items, different ideas. They are encouraging thinking. They are encouraging the questions. By doing that, the religions themselves are realizing they need to get away from the traditional aspects.
Ralph: One of the things that goes against this, the Catholic church has been a prime example of this, that they consider these cultural changes to be mere fads and temporary distortions, whereas they are like the boat, they have their keel and they have the steady center of life and they must maintain that ancient tradition because these things are just temporary changes that are not going to last. They are the ones who will last, therefore they must maintain the stability in our culture.
Charity: Again on the avenue of religion, religion as we have stated it is a place for social gathering. To have as you humans would say, it feeds yourself, finds what's missing, but the most difficult aspect of that is that the masses can be fooled. You have a lot of immature Essences there that are bringing their charges to the avenues, or their charges have totally not believed that they have anything in themselves. They feel lost. The ministers have what is known as a control issue that they have not gotten past and by being a minister speaking to the masses, you are thereby yourself behind some very important decoration to deliver a message. The message that you deliver, the human should also be living it. But the ministers are not living it, therefore the religions are being tested. Basically is what is happening. By the ministers that are being put in the institutions where you have worked, proves the avenue that the ministers are a control issue, and the religions suffer, and the humans therefore ask more questions, or become even more lost.
Ralph: Because they operate on the principle that you shouldn't ask any questions. You should take everything they say by faith. Because they can't prove anything scientifically in religion anyhow, everything is, "Yes, sir, we accept everything you say because we believe you just by faith."
Charity: Just as you had stated just now, with Becky's charge, you had basically stated the same avenue with herself and her biological mother. She believed also. It did not work.
Ralph: You are tying that into this? I lost the connection there.
Charity: How?
Ralph: That's what I'm saying, what I was wondering, and I was just wondering this with her, as it happens all the time, that people will tend to give money or trust to relatives because they are relatives, not because they have proven their ability to handle money.
Charity: Just the same avenue with that, the humans are trusting the ministers, also.
Ralph: Well, I think we also have that in the False Memory Syndrome thing, with the trusting of the therapist. We have heard that a great deal. "Well, they're the expert, therefore they should know. " They are very gullible and very foolish.
Charity: Yes, it is.
Ralph: They have no way of knowing.
Charity: Just as the ministers are the same avenue, the religions are using that as a monetary gain for the ministers who are delivering the message the humans want to hear, to gather all monetary value so they can take away from the humans.
Ralph: Well, of course, I watched that with my father, because he had no other source of income to pay for our groceries and housing and such. Some of little churches have permission for the
minister to work at other jobs and earn his money there, so they are part time and that seems to work out, but it is a major problem if the ministers whole source of income is in making appeals to the members of his church whether it is on TV or in the building, and he is phrasing it all in "You are going to donate for the glory of God and his mission," But 90% of that is his salary. My dad felt like a hypocrite doing that and I can see why. But what else does he have to feed his children? That makes a major problem. They do provide these agencies, with hospitals and schools and such like that.
Charity: But by supplying those avenues, they are teaching to bring about more belief systems. As the schools that you had just stated, the humans go to schools. Not only do they learn the normal subjects that all humans learn, but they are also then indoctrinated into the belief system of that religion.
Ralph: At least they try to, yes.
Charity: And they are successful.
Ralph: At an older age, they are not successful. In younger age, they are.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: The colleges are not going to be very effective. Mitzi had that when she was sent to a Catholic boarding school, it wasn't a boarding school for her, but they tried very hard to convert her into Catholicism and she had to resist it all the way. That's what they feel is their duty.
Charity: So you can see number 3 is also a very important aspect. Grow spiritually hut not religiouswise. Religion is just a set of believing in other things of other humans to deliver something that is missing. But if you practice number one and number two, by your Essence, you can therefore grow spiritually. You don't need another religion to tell you what to do. Correct?
Ralph: I'm not going to debate that point. I'm just looking at, in the point of view that people are built with certain needs to fulfill.
Charity: Of course
Ralph: One being sociable, one being sexual, one being control. These are all needs we are built with.
Charity: Correct
Ralph: The churches obviously have existed because they supply ways to deal with some of those needs. Otherwise they wouldn't have stuck around.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: So I am thinking about if everybody was everybody was able to recognize their Essence and was getting their belief systems through that, or their directions of what to do through that, we still have to meet these social needs.
Charity: Yes. So you build buildings or you go to the churches for that avenue. You can be around your friends. We do not need a set of belief systems or someone who will tell you how you will need to convey to live as your Essence is telling you about. An interpreter.
Ralph: When I was in Sweden
Charity: Are you sure you were in Sweden?
Ralph: Yes, it said so at the airport. Anyhow, they have very big churches over there. And churches are all Lutheran churches and that is a state religion and when I was there we found that very few Swedes had any belief in God in any way. And they had no attendance at the church. Churches existed because the state use them to keep track of births, marriages and deaths. The ministers were recording these ceremonies and keeping the records and therefore they were State employees. So they got their income from state salaries to keep records. But there were these big buildings that have been busy in older days as churches but nobody was coming except a very few people. But now they were using them for concerts and big musical ceremonies that young people wanted to go to, that had nothing to do with religions, so they were substituting those buildings as just big auditoriums. Now, that was because there was no belief that there was a god of any sort. Now I don't know what has happened to the Swedes in the meantime, but they
were only saying intellectually, there is no such thing, everything is material. There is nothing immaterial, just God is immaterial, if it doesn't exist here, it doesn't exist. I think we are not getting a resurgence of interest in religion because it does accept the immaterial as a reality.
Charity: But the religions also exclude humans. Correct?
Ralph: I don't know what you mean. Which humans under what conditions?
Charity: If humans are not married to a opposite gender?
Ralph: Oh, many churches would be very unhappy about that, yes.
Charity: And they have been excluded, have they not?
Ralph: That's because we have religions that say that life is more sacred than anything else, and that is the carcass life.
Charity: Then we have a question for you on that avenue. If the religions are valid, have talked about the avenue that when you cease, you will go up and be with the Creator, correct? And that you will be happy and joyous.
Ralph: I'll have wings like an angel.
Charity: And everything will be wonderful, correct?
Ralph: Yes.
Charity: Then why is it that religions also want to make the existence go longer before you can achieve that part of it, that the religions offer?
Ralph: I honestly can't answer you on that. You are quite right. It is an illogical process.
Charity: Yes it is.
Ralph: At the same time, however, you have the religions stating that they are the groups that value life more than shall we say the government that executes people, and armies to shoot people, and therefore don't value life.
Charity: But then as we state, they are exalting themselves.
Ralph: Sounds like it. They don't – still at this point, the acceptance of what might be called the soul or the Essence or anything that is going to continue after bodily life disappears is out of the question. Can somebody prove there is life after death? We have all kinds of
Charity: But there have been humans that have ceased and then came back, have there not? You have many books on that avenue.
Ralph: We have had people that have had near death experiences, like your son said, it is just neurological interference that doesn't really happen.
Ralph: Anyhow that's what he said. Well, I'm saying, now we can ask a bit more about this, since we are here on churches' religions. Because this is what churches have done. You shall go to church to worship the gods we list for you to worship. Right?
Charity: Yes.
Ralph: What is the purpose of the rural chapel but to provide a place for the community in this frontier town to worship their god. Now in other areas, the CIE were seen as lesser gods, multiple gods, Zeus, Jupiter, and they came to worship them and that is what you object to.
Charity: We are not human. Therefore do not worship ourselves. The Creator is the One that you worship. You do not worship ourselves. We are there to deliver and orchestrate what The Creator deems.
Ralph: Then let me throw in the Why question. Why is it so dangerous to us, you stated it is, but why would our culture go down the tubes, as we say, as others have, if we take on that habit of worshiping the CIE as the Great Powers?
Charity: We are not the Great Powers.
Ralph: But look at all the things you do.
Charity: We do our jobs.
Ralph: It's like the definition of what is supernatural. We went through that once with Linda, remember? It all depends on where you are at the beginning. What's super is what you don't
know about.
Charity: We do need to be praised for our avenue of doing our responsibilities. It is our responsibilities. You as a human see it as an act of specialism. We are not special. We are doing The Creator's bidding the way it needs to be done. The Creator chooses to tell ourselves, "Thank you."
Ralph: So you do get recognized. This is like a business.
Charity: On the recognition aspect, we are not human. We do not have feelings.
Ralph: You don't need the recognitions.
Charity: We do our job. The Creator dictates; we carry through.
Ralph: Humans, as you are well aware, a lot of them don't do their jobs. Unless they are given an emotional praise for being valuable people and then they are more likely to do their jobs.
Charity: That is a human emotion. Again you humans want to put onto ourselves human emotions.
Ralph: You have to admit it is a moral ???
Charity: We are not human. We do not need a pat on the back. We are energy. You cannot pat energy, you cannot hold energy, you cannot say "thank you" to energy.
Ralph: Now you may not need any pats on the back.
Charity: We do not want it.
Ralph: You may not want it, you may not need it, but why is it dangerous to humans if they give it? That is different.
Charity: By revering and thanking us TURN OVER TAPE
Charity: By doing that, you are taking, you are having us become as ??. That is a pitfall, as you humans would state. We are not human, do not humanize us.
Ralph: Why can't you just ignore it and leave those people to be? Why do they have to?
Charity: We can and we do. The process is if it becomes a worshiping aspect of ourselves. Then we cannot ignore it.
Ralph: It is certainly inherent part of every religion that they the parishioners to worship whatever God they might see as going to worship.
Charity: But they are a god. They are human. They have made them human characteristics, have they not?
Ralph: That's the way it sounds, yes.
Charity: This God that you humans have, you have made it have human characteristics, correct?
Ralph: They name it as Lord and Leader, which is a human relation.
Charity: Which is again human characteristics.
Ralph: It is a relationship of a master to slave.
Charity: A human characteristic is God, therefore it is important. The Creator is perfect. The Creator has no human characteristics. The Creator is not human. The Creator is energy.
Ralph: Intelligent Energy at that.
Charity: Yes.
Ralph: Which equals consciousness.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: Which all of us have a little biddy piece of.
Charity: Yes, very minute.
Ralph: But it is still the same stuff, as we said.
Charity: Yes. To put The Creator on the same physical plane as yourself, is an injustice.
Ralph: What about those individuals who worship Christ? That is certainly a very common attitude.
Charity: It is a common part of the religion in this part of your globe. And we understand that, but it is still the same aspect. The Great Teacher, any part of the Great Teacher, is not a worship aspect.
Ralph: So Jesus Christ is not a worshipful subject either.
Charity: No. He had a human body. Why worship a human who had a human body?
Ralph: Well, I think it is that they consider him to be a Son of God and therefore something specially related to God, but they are not. I see this as a worshipful
Charity: The thing we state is The Creator is energy. Why would The Creator cease to exist to make a son for a replacement?
Ralph: Well, I don't think anybody considers him a replacement. There are three parts of what they call the Trinity. God, Son and The Holy Ghost.
Charity: What is the Holy Ghost?
Ralph: That is you folks.
Charity: We are not a ghost.
Ralph: Well, you told me once that you would be considered that.
Charity: We are not holy.
Ralph: What they were looking at, and I could say the CIE would fit into that, the power that accomplishes these things that are miracles.
Charity: The CIE are a Trinity, the Guardian, The Teacher, The Professor. The Creator is here, we are here. The Creator tells us what to do. We are given free reign to do.
Ralph: You can do it in any way you need to. But I say that all of your abilities to make what we call miracles, as they are not in physical space following the rules, that is what humans are obviously going to admire and praise as that is something that is going to strike them dumb, is supernatural, is seen as a great danger. Therefore you must worship them and appease them so they won't strike you dead.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: That would be the reason why admiration and praise would be done.
Charity: There is the avenue, we will not destroy humans.
Ralph: But that's the fear, that's the fear.
Charity: It is a fear, but fear is the controlling aspect. Therefore by giving ourselves physical characteristics, it brings ourselves down the your plane.
Ralph: But it makes these frightened people more able to defend themselves against the power that you have.
Charity: Of course.
Ralph: It is the power that is destructive, any human with power is in a position to destroy somebody else.
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: We love power.
Charity: But we do not destroy.
Ralph: They do not know that.
Charity: We are most
Ralph: They don't realize that you are the pure pacifist.
Charity: Pacifist?
Ralph: You like peace and quiet. You don't like war for the sake of war, because it is exciting.
Charity: Yes.
Ralph: You may use something exciting for the purpose of teaching humans
Charity: Correct.
Ralph: But you don't need it just for the purpose of entertaining yourself.
Charity: No.
Ralph: That is a human characteristic, to entertain yourself.
Charity: We don't need entertainment. We are most busy with our humans. If you want us to put us on a ?? playing of yourselves, giving up a physical characteristic, you could state that humans might call it puppet masters? Pull strings.
Ralph: Puppeteers.
Charity: Pull strings.
Ralph: Puppeteers is the terms, those who manage puppets.
Charity: Manipulators.
Ralph: Yes,
Charity: We do not manipulate, we